An Amazon programmer’s perspective on working at Amazon

An Amazon programmer’s perspective on working at Amazon

Initially posted at

House off warning: point out of suicidal ideation

tl;dr: I burned out as a developer at Amazon on the cease of my second one 12 months. I’ve since came across a healthful and sustainable work-existence steadiness and experience work another time. I write this to A) elevate consciousness, specifically for model fresh-hires and their households, and B) support give hope and recommendation to of us going throughout the equivalent at Amazon or different firms.

Hiya, world

There’s been no shortage of anecdotes, opinions, and rebuttals regarding Amazon’s company customized as of late. I write this now to not capitalize on mainly probably the most trendy info-feed fad, nevertheless to portion what I had already written and promptly deleted. I didn’t suppose anyone would wish to take heed to my story, nevertheless it completely’s obvious of us are going by way of a equivalent experience and don’t beget a relate.

I’m a Map Constructing Engineer II at Amazon; SDE II most often method a machine developer with at least 2–three years of trade experience. I began at Amazon as an SDE I.

To work at one among the many In depth 5 is no longer any queer dream for numerous devs, nevertheless it completely was once one who I shared. After passing a timed on-line coding quiz, I was flown to Seattle for an interview. Inside per week of flying support, I received a name to congratulate me apart from debate the equivalent outdated (compensation, and benefits), apart from the additional particular (participating bonus, signing bonus, and vesting inventory options). Remember these “wonderful” bits, as they matter later.

For the precious few months, points had been fairly well-liked: typical company mottos (this time generally known as “Suggestions”) and “your work is larger than applicable style work” speeches. I eye by way of it now nevertheless on the time phrases savor “World’s Most Purchaser-Centric Agency” are sweet to a large-eyed fresh-hire.

First Comes the Pager

After being on the group for a pair of months, I was connect on the on-call rotation. Right here’s what being on-call method:

  • You might be on-demand 1 week each X weeks, the place X is the alternative of contributors in your group
  • Whereas on-call, your different tasks take in at most half of your time for the size of the workday
  • The the leisure of the workday is focused on operational parts (retaining the lights on)
  • You might be on 24/7 pager accountability for the size of your on-call

Right here’s what pager accountability method:

  • You might be paged if a “ingredient” your group owns goes “into dread.” That is deliberately obscure as a result of it method fairly a pair of points for fairly numerous teams.
  • If paged, it is probably you may beget 15 minutes to get grasp of on-line and reply to the web page
  • Everytime you don’t, your supervisor is paged. You perform NOT need this to occur

On-call wasn’t (and isn’t) too unpleasant for my group. Earlier than each factor we averaged 1 web page each 2 weeks; now we’re as much as about 1 per week. Different teams beget it distinguished, distinguished worse. It is miles a social damper although. Everytime you ought with a view to “bail out” at a second’s examine cross-take a take a look at, it is probably you may be in a location to’t actually blueprint plans to exit anyplace.

I point out on-call accountability as a result of it is “shifting” in that mainly probably the most attention-grabbing different occupation requiring this roughly responsiveness is docs, literal lifesavers. Within the event you plod on-demand the precious time, it’s hideous and tells you “holy crap, that is severe.”

For the size of the hiring course of, on-call is no longer talked about in anyway fairly then the equivalent outdated salaried purchase-all “are you prepared to work nights and/or weekends.”

Then Technique Loaners

As soon as nearly within the current day in divulge to full a mountainous problem, one other group would perchance effectively wish to blueprint code changes. That different group, naturally, could not be in a location to spare the builders required, so that you get grasp of loaned out. Until the problem is carried out, you might be between teams and serving two managers.

In some circumstances, that different group opinion they’d spare the dev-hours and full the code changes. After they don’t, sooner or later they tumble behind, so that you get grasp of loaned out.

Anybody who’s learn “The Legendary Man-Month” has their ears perking up. For those who haven’t learn it, proper this is the gist, by technique of Wikipedia: “together with manpower to a late machine problem makes it later”.

My worst days at Amazon had been after I was loaned out; genuinely, the worst days of my existence had been after I was loaned out.

Attain the cease of my second one 12 months at Amazon, I was pulled into “Enterprise X” (clearly renamed). It had the entire underpinnings of a problem with a unfavorable future:

  • altering necessities from fairly a pair of teams, in fairly a pair of countries
  • extreme stakes and visibility (virtually as much as Bezos himself)

I could not give a day-by-day legend, nevertheless to decrease to the trot: points received intense.

Because the problem fell behind, the stress and scrutiny from above grew. The problem managers wished to cross down the urgency in mainly probably the most environment splendid diagram conceivable, to reasonable success.

Prolonged weekdays grew to transform into working over the weekend. I felt largely accountable for a way behind points had been. As of now, I make no longer beget any concept how sincere that’s. Regardless of the trigger, whether or not throughout the should recount my price or out of ache of failure, the consequence was once the equivalent: I labored non-conclude. Each waking hour was once connect into write code and fixing bugs.

Earlier than each factor I composed had some self-awareness. I knew objectively that working extra most attention-grabbing makes one much less productive, nevertheless It Had To Be Carried out.

Exhaustion at closing took over. My code received worse and worse. I believed I’d perchance effectively outrace my bug-depend with strains of code. The Inside Loop of the Demise Spiral had begun to path.

Finally the stress modified my persona in ways in which grew to transform seen to others. I was unpleasant, after I’m basically out-going and concept. I was humorless after I’m basically the one who makes jokes. My co-workers starting noticing it, regardless of the guise I attempted to place on. I began deciding on work over being with my friends. Earlier than each factor they understood. Some quantity of “sorry I wish to work” is comprehensible. Finally they started to ache too. All one other time, in a improper try and no longer burden them, I started to isolate myself => The second Loop of the Demise Spiral.


We’ve not however reached the outermost loop, nevertheless first, a quick aside.

Remember after I talked about Amazon’s participating and signing bonus? Runt caveat on that, inside the event you plod away or are fired inside 2 years, you need to pay it support.

Gathered recent out of college, my financial savings had been considerably decrease than how distinguished I’d’ve owed. So if I had been to stop Amazon, I’d no longer applicable style be out of a job, I’d be inside the outlet higher than three months’ income.

So now I am able to no longer “applicable style plod away.” With that realization got here paralyzing hopelessness. If I failed and received fired, then I could not be in a location to look out another job for fairly a whereas. Un/Underemployment amongst Millennials is roughly A Factor. Now I beget the stress of staying employed on high of each factor => The Third Loop.

Cascading Failure

At this level, my self-care was once non-existent. All to maximise code output, I lived off an on a popular foundation circulation of junk meals and caffeine. I’ve always had some stage of insomnia, nevertheless it completely received distinguished worse. The ultimate straw was once after I traded sleep for code.

At this level the stress grew to transform a big unhappy gap in my concepts. No different analogy matches. It bodily felt crushing. No emotions and no concepts would perchance effectively get grasp of away. I’d perchance effectively most attention-grabbing plod again and again how distinguished it harm and that I needed it to conclude.
This thunder is what I consider after I hear “Amazombie.”

For the size of this time I cried. Fairly a bit. Usually when going to sleep, as I knew it could applicable style all inaugurate another time the subsequent day. As soon as nearly within the current day with my confederate. A few circumstances inside the bathroom stall. Nevertheless no, (you masochists) no longer at my desk.

With my thoughts producing most attention-grabbing two opinion kinds (“Effort” and “Please conclude wretchedness”), it wasn’t extended sooner than concepts of suicide crept in.

To ensure: I by no means took any motion on these concepts. I did no longer wish to raze myself. I saved concepts of planning away as distinguished as I’d perchance effectively. Nevertheless that’s the ingredient with suicidal ideation: it doesn’t matter what you actually need, the opinion comes support over and throughout another time and at closing replaces “Please conclude wretchedness” with “Please conclude Each little factor.” => The Closing Loop.


I at closing sought psychiatric support. I bear in mind the willpower coming so matter-of-truth. Virtually with the keenness that you just simply rent a handyman to repair one thing. “Hm. A leaky pipe. Higher get grasp of a plumber.” “Ruminating concepts of ending it? I’ll beget to beget any person to ogle at that.”

Up till this level, mainly probably the most attention-grabbing person who knew what was once actually occurring was once my confederate. I am able to no longer (nevertheless will try and) recount my gratitude to her for the size of this time. She was once there precisely after I needed her. She helped even when she didn’t value why I was inserting myself by way of it. She noticed the indicators distinguished before I did and tried to recount me. After I did value I needed support, she connect me involved.

I was connect on Celexa. Finally the Demise Spiral’s loops unwound. The problem launched. Issues went support to largely commonplace. I went off of Celexa after a pair of months. I didn’t really feel absolutely recovered till months later. I felt on eggshells. I rigorously prioritized self-care by leaving work at eight hours in, on the dot. I began reaching support out to my friends for hangouts.

My supervisor gave me a pair of additional trip days in return for my efforts. I was promoted to SDE II and was once even healthful ample to rejoice and experience it.

Possess Spine

“So what? So that you burned your self out and received burned out. What did you depend on of?” I wrote this as a result of I needed to place my story down and as a cautionary delusion. I’m NOT proper right here to place some foolish bar of what a “correct” programmer does to get grasp of points carried out. I’m NOT proper right here to demonize Amazon.

So far as what I have to say to Amazon/Jeff Bezos, I most attention-grabbing beget a pair of points:

  • Revisit your bonus/relocation payback approach. I make no longer know what the “applicable style” decision is, nevertheless if that is what you need to understand staff, that’s fucked.
  • Be upfront and as true as conceivable with what a location entails. “Working alongside trim and passionate of us” is lazy hiring.
  • Abet staff to be elementary no longer applicable style of concepts, nevertheless additionally of expectations. Getting them to buy into the premise that they beget to stop each factor else to get grasp of validation from you is abusive.
  • Understand that productiveness and joyful staff is no longer a 0-sum recreation. The consumer is no longer a offended god that calls for a sacrifice

This cautionary delusion is no longer Amazon-recount. This may effectively occur to nearly anyone, nevertheless specifically of us working in intense workplaces and specifically builders working in intense workplaces.

There’s a asserting that I noticed over and throughout another time in boards and subreddits, nevertheless by no means believed till I lived it:

It is your genuine obligation to attach at bay on unreasonable expectations. Your bosses could not savor it earlier than each factor, nevertheless they will respect you for it.

My different portion of recommendation-you-did not-come-right here-for: connect some Fuck You cash.

Normal Reactions

I do know that by posting this anonymously I’m no longer facilitating a dialogue. An anon publish is me speaking at you.

Alternatively, I’d no longer be posting on this variety if I wasn’t authentically frightened of dropping my job. The recount different voices we beget heard from current staff had been gag-apt in want of Amazon:,

A few predominant criticisms of these two articles:

  • They’re on LinkedIn. I detest something posted on LinkedIn. All criticism is toothless; all phrases watered down. Attributable to each factor is scoured by future employers, everybody appears to be like to be frightened of actually asserting something controversial.
  • They’re from staff that do not seem like “on the bottom,” nevertheless fairly a manager-of-managers and an HR-get grasp of respectively.

Does nobody else secure it attention-grabbing that we’re no longer seeing any damaging criticism from current staff? I make no longer care what firm you’re employed for, there may be no longer ceaselessly any shortage of of us prepared to complain. So why no damaging articles from current staff?

Scare. Scare breeds a put collectively of silence.

There are a pair of commonplace responses I’ve seen to articles and I’d savor to pre-empt these proper right here:

“Working higher than precisely 40 hours is a part of being a genuine.” (and variants thereof)
I agree wholeheartedly, nevertheless these desires to be occasional occasions. 70+ hour weeks is not going to be the conserving sample. They desires to be favored by administration. Hell, buy us dinner inside the event you’re going to fuck us over a door desk.

“Why didn’t you applicable style work much less? It appears to be like savor a quantity of it was once your particular person fault.”
I am going over this ask over and throughout another time in my very own head. Alongside with the reasons talked about sooner than, I applicable style felt compelled to push by way of it. I felt that after getting employed at such a “huge title” firm, that if I didn’t connect each factor I’d perchance effectively into it that I was doing a disservice to all those who helped me get grasp of proper right here. What I didn’t value was once that the alternative was once sincere: that by breaking myself, I did recount that I wasn’t prepared in a way. Fortuitously I did blueprint it by way of as was once in a location to be taught from it.

“You might be applicable style a ball of negativity, no surprise to get grasp of downhearted”
Which brings me to my subsequent half…

Ecstatic Trails

As correctly as to my story, I perform wish to enumerate the problems I experience about working at Amazon. I’m composed working proper right here in the long run and I make no longer beget any plans of inserting in my examine cross-take a take a look at.

  • Lax working hours & can blueprint a dwelling from house
    “What?!? Despite each factor you applicable style talked about?!?” Nevertheless severely, when points at the moment are not in disaster, which is 80%+ of the time, a developer’s day no longer ceaselessly begins sooner than 9am. It is probably you may basically blueprint a dwelling from house about as soon as per week. Each time it is probably you may effectively perchance savor to go work early for a sincere trigger, that’s beautiful (although it is basically commonplace courtesy to blueprint a dwelling from house afterward).

  • No Costume Code
    That is actually a given in most areas, nevertheless coming from a exchange-casual-most attention-grabbing location, t-shirts are a godsend.

  • Pay
    It must be talked about. I received’t give out numbers, as that may be figuring out, nevertheless can fulfill your curiosity. When a sincere a part of my friends combat to understand gainfully employed, it is candy. Regardless of the parts I described above, I composed come from a privileged location of being financially get grasp of and composed beget a sincere quantity of job safety.

  • Work with and blueprint on high of “giants”
    Actual trying one in every of many commonplace hiring buy phrases of tech firms is to “work alongside trim of us.” Whereas I basically roll my eyes at that, it really is distinguished to a developer’s improve to no longer always be the neatest one inside the room.

  • Recruiting
    Jeff Bezos’s electronic mail talked about how we get grasp of contacted by recruiters the entire time; with that ingredient was once involved with our reality. I’ve heard from Google, Fb, Netflix, and others. I received extra recruiting emails in my first month in Seattle than I did in a one 12 months in my outdated put aside.

  • Attain-Instantaneous Gratification
    There’s one thing immense about having code you wrote be actually carried out by hundreds of of us every day. So few of us get grasp of to recount their household and friends a put they search the recommendation of with frequently and say “I did that ingredient there.” Per probability this could put on off at closing, nevertheless it completely’s composed my favorite.

Match Horizon

I’m on a model recent loaner problem now. One different “DEFCON ZEROMG!” problem, nevertheless now I beget boundaries,and the information that Amazon is no longer going to tumble over if I don’t work 70-hour weeks. Work-existence steadiness would perchance effectively even be largely subjective, nevertheless I now know what that steadiness appears to be like savor for me and implement that whereas composed inserting my best efforts into my work I needed to be taught that the onerous diagram. I am able to most attention-grabbing hope you’re making no longer should as correctly.

-amznymous (


  1. A former colleague of mine suspects that Amazon is going to eventually run out of developers to hire because of how rapidly they burn through them.

    Yet to know anyone who lasted more than a year or two there.

  2. This is what I don't understand. When Tbray left, he said he was doing so in solidarity with the distribution center types, but he held to the line that AWS was great. This despite nightmare stories like this one regularly bubbling up, and I've heard similar from friends.

    What is it about tech culture that people within it refuse to admit the level of abuse-by-design that happens at these companies? Is it that they want to believe that they are somehow fundamentally different from the distribution and grocery store workers, and fundamentally similar to Bezos? I can't help but feel it's just this kind of false consciousness that prevents developers from _getting organized_.

    Sidenote, payroll tax on Amazon in Seattle trying to get revived. It's a long and winding story. Check out

  3. The loaner thing is so true – having two bosses is THE PITS! That and not sleeping.

    My first job out of college I had two bosses. HORRIBLE.

    This came up recently, a manager, trying to be helpful, not sure they could manage someone said why don't we both manage them. NO!

    The other things – trading sleep and shutting off friends – the first will destroy your quality of life and the second you will regret for a LONG time no matter how critical the day to day was.

    I'm not perfect. Some things. Setting boundries. I focus on situations in my case – what situation lead to bad results.

    I go home even if I'm behind. I sleep next to my wife and play with my kid. Covid has made catching back up with friends harder.

    I think what folks from the outside don't realize is that folks making big money+ – you put a lot of pressure ON YOURSELF. You are given lots of money, often lots of responsibility, your work impacts lots of people (internally and externally). This is even if Jeff Bezos is not your boss.


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